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 Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha

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PostSubject: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:57 pm

Here is a start to guild bank rules. Please comment, add new rules, whatever, so that we can get a finalized st in the next few days.

INTRO
#1 - Bhorg, and all officers rank 2 (Amberlee, Emiran, Obrox) have ultimate control of the rules and may modify them at any time for any reason.
#2 - Violating guild bank rules is punishable my gkick and ban, demotion, or flogging with soggy diapers.
#3 - Rules should be applied fairly, if you think something was handled poorly by an office talk to Bhorg for clarification, if you think Bhorg handled something poorly, talk to other officers.

ACCESS
#1 - Bhorg has full access to everything
#2 - Rank 2 officers have large access to tab 1, and moderate access to tab 4, they have total access to all other tabs - to get rank #2 yo umust be approved by Bhorg.
#3 - Rank 3 officers have limited access to tab 1, no access to tab 4, and full access to everything else
#4 - All other ranks can see all tabs, but may have limited access to tabs 2,3,5,6
#5 - Everyone can deposit to all tabs - Please, deposit materials into the appropriate tabs, otherwise you ware making more work for us cleaning up your mess. We are not your mothers. Unless we are your mothers, in that case, go clean your room.

WITHDRAWALS
#1 - Bhorg and rank 2 officers may withdraw any item to be sold to guildies for 50-75% of AH prices
#2 - Bhorg and rank 2 officers may remove raw materials for crafting of guild items such as flasks, food etc.
#3 - All other withdrawals may be done, as allowed automatically. If you take something, please pay 50-75% AH prices for it.
#4 - Unless you are an officer, if you take something, USE it, don't SELL it! Selling guild items for personal gain without permission will results in gkick AND floggingwith a dirty diaper.

GOLD
#1 - Rank 1 and 2 officers can remove gold to 'play the AH'
#2 - Gold is NEVER loaned to players. Ever. Don't ask, we will make you write 200 times, "Neither a borrower nor lender be." in /trade, numbering each line - no macro - I'm not even kidding.

BUYING BoE Epics
#1 - BoE epics will be sold at fair prices to guildies - if more than 1 guildie wants the item, it will be 'auctioned'
#2 - if no guildie wants the item, it will be sold in AH

OFFSET ITEMS
#1 - BoP Offset items can be bought for GP in the standard EPGP system. I nobody wants to spend GP, then guildies may offer 'fair market' gold for the item. This amount will be ABOVE 500gold. If more than one player wants to BUY an item for OFFSET it will be auctioned

EPGP
#1 - we will be selling EP in guild. Officers are not eligible. Each week guildies will be allowed to buy 6 EP for 242 gold. The sale of EP will be done between Friday and Monday ONLY. The EP is BoA, so only 4 or 6 may be bought per person, but it does not matter for alt, member, initiate or raider. Alt EP buying is fine, but then the main toon cannot buy EP. Guild will be deposited directly into the guild bank.

I will allow EPGP Transfers between alts and mains - one transfer per month. Cost = 100 gold.

Give me more ideas to make money fairly.

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Last edited by Admin on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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jedimindtrix

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:59 pm

I hav a large supply of soggy diapers for the floggings

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:57 pm

hey j looks good, been watching in the shadows, but seems like BAC is gonna be really prepared for Cata.

since i wont be playing again till this weekend or next week i had a question regarding BOEs from raids. will they sit in the Gbank for any amount of time before being put on the AH like maybe a week or two max to give a person like me who's an altaholic a chance to buy them?
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:38 pm

BoEs will be offered to raiders for alts and stuff first.

The following week I will bring them to raid and auction them, if there are no takers, I will offer to guild.

Something like that, unless somebody thinks of a better idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:10 pm

ya something like that sounds good, if someone cant make a raid on said night or needs that 500 extra gold they'll be able to do it with that week waiting period


i might also suggest bumping the EP up by 10 or 20g ea. to 50 or 60ea, doesn't seem like it would be a big/unreasonable increase to me because right now a raider than can make the money to buy their 6 points in one day of dallies, which just seems a lil too easy because it takes almost hslf a raid to earn those 6 points raiding. this way i cant just randomly raid then buy buy and buy more points and when my EP its absurdly high raid and win everything
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Emiran



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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:39 pm

Firstly, bang up job on the write up. Key points that I like are the GP first, then gold rules. In the past it was GP then rolls on random epic drops and I always felt that this just led people to collude to not using GP so they could get a free piece of gear. This will make it so that there is some sacrifice for looting, be it GP or gold.


About the pricing on EP, I personally think it is low. I know that we had kind of loosely tried to base it upon what you can grind out in an hour, but the more I think of it, the more I think that's not a good deal for the guild. People who come to the raid are giving it their all, investing time, wiping, repairing, learning, etc. There is a whole lot more invested in an hour of raiding than in an hour of doing dailies, or farming X mob. The two hours aren't equal. That line of thinking leads me to be in the camp that thinks it should be more expensive to buy your EP than earn it. So maybe 1 hour of raiding is worth 1.5 or 2 hours of farming? I'm not sure the exact strike point, but it should be higher than it is at. 6 EP is 90 minutes worth of raiding. Anyone who does the Argent Tourney dailies is going to make more than that in 90 minutes. I think 240-250g is an average daily grinding rate in Northrend for one hour, but I'd love to hear more opinions on it.


*EDIT*

And I'd also like to clarify the 50-75% rule. I think it is fine to have a guideline window for when a guildy is removing something from the bank on their own and is paying according to their situation. I do not like it for when a caretaker of the bank is removing an item that someone wants to purchase. One might sell everything at 50%, one at 75% and another at 62.5% cause that's just the precise center of what Bhorg said to do. So if we're having someone buy from a banker, all the bankers should be on the same page. So bankers sell at 50% or 60% or 75% doesn't matter so long as all are the same. It could even be by rank if you chose where raiders were at 50% (do to their consistent committment) and the next rank down is at 60% (providing an incentive to sacrifice and raid).

Just ideas. Debate em, slice em, improve em.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:26 am

Quick comment about the 50-75% of AH - for pricing stuff from bg. The issue is that most folks will just check local auctioneer mod. ?[item of moderate worth] - the number that they get quoted varies widely.

It would be pretty impossible to set fixed prices for items.

Whether withdrawing from gbank or buying from AH - market prices may vary. Very, Very rarely does a guildie day, "wow - that seems high".

I am 100% willing to set a more firm price, I just don't really know the best way to do that quickly, in-game.

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:35 am

In the case of 50-75% of buying things Em could be right and there is an influx. Could we not set a flat rate for all items and then leave it for whomever to decide if maybe they want give the guild a little extra?

EX) Gems are typically 125g to buyout on the AH but if we just make a flat rate of 75g its not quite 50% but its still a reasonable price.

Now lets say seeing how we had discussed that raiders will be getting supplies for raids like pots and food. Would it be fair to say that we ask that all raiders to contribute 100g a week? This is just a thought but this way everyone would be pitching in for our efforts going into Cata. We want this to be a guild effort so we should have the support of the guild. I don't think its a rediculous amount of money and we know it can be easily farmed and with the exception of on a night of raidiing where we have per say 10 officers thats still 1500g extra.

For everything else its looking really good team.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:17 am

gold suggestion:

this might work if we coudl get enough guildie interest mainly tanks and healers, and this would definatly help bolster our g-bank and even help some guildies get some gear to raid a bit before cata hits.I think we have enough people focused on ICC rght now that it should be possible to do a TOC GDKP run maybe every week, on a to be determined day. For the best success we'd prob only want 4 guildies for 10man and 9 for 25, just to ensure it wouldn't go to hell and you'd have a few people you know you can rely on.

i'm not sure about the 10man ICC but i think we started focusing on 25 right before i left, so another option could be icc 10man GDKP for the person and guild

i really have next to no experience with these runs other than what i've seen friends do. im still workin on numbers because this needs to be profitable to both the person and the guild to get as much interest as possible, but heres my basic idea:

for toc the bottom required bid could be somewhere along the lines of 300g-400g for for armor, 500-600 for weps and 800-1000 for trinks.

to help fund the bank guildies participating would agree to donate a pre-determined ammount of their winnings maybe like 5 or10%(idk if thats too high or low) to the gbank
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:27 am

Sono has a decent idea, but we do not have enough cleared in ICC10 or 25 to do GDKP. Folks expect a full clear with those, I imagine.

Perhaps we should see if we can 20 man ToGC. If we can, then maybe there would be GDKP interest in that run.

A

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:20 pm

thnx j, ya i figured TOC was still relevant enough. and with the whole % donated thing the guildies leading/participating it still make out with some decent cash and help the guild at the same time. ill ask around a bit more to find out how other GDKP runs are handled
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:41 pm

GDKP is solid.

I have run a couple and they do well. There is one inherent problem with them for the purposes of the guild bank, however.

At the end of a GDKP run, it is expected that the pot will be split amongst all the raiders in the raid evenly. So if we have say 9 BAC members carrying a 25 man GDKP, we're most likely going to have some of the 16 PUGs who are there only for gold as well. So either we're asking those 9 BAC members to forfeit their gold cut for the sake of the guild bank or ... actually there is no or. I'm not sure how the guild makes money on a GDKP unless we're charging an entrance fee that goes to the house.

For individual members, it is great. But if it is a guild money making device then there has to be some compensation for the people that make it work.

So that will take some thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:34 pm

Emiran wrote:
GDKP is solid.

I have run a couple and they do well. There is one inherent problem with them for the purposes of the guild bank, however.

At the end of a GDKP run, it is expected that the pot will be split amongst all the raiders in the raid evenly. So if we have say 9 BAC members carrying a 25 man GDKP, we're most likely going to have some of the 16 PUGs who are there only for gold as well. So either we're asking those 9 BAC members to forfeit their gold cut for the sake of the guild bank or ... actually there is no or. I'm not sure how the guild makes money on a GDKP unless we're charging an entrance fee that goes to the house.

For individual members, it is great. But if it is a guild money making device then there has to be some compensation for the people that make it work.

So that will take some thought.

warning: ok im sure my numbers are prob off but 10 and 25 are easy to work with. because i haven't asked around enough to find what the general pot is

ya em that's a good valid but here's what i think would work, I'm gonna use 10man cause its easier to calculate 4 people than it is 9. anyway lets say a good pot is 25k, so each of those 10 players gets 2500g. we would NEVER keep the pot and obviously wouldn't ask anyone to donate their entire winnings for the sake of the guild, so i was thinking a fair amount would be roughly 10% 250gea so those 4 guildies would still get over 2.2k and the guild would get 1k total. i hope that would be enough of an incentive, because GDKPs do usually go a lot farther than your average pug. but the biggest reason i could see this as viable is because a lot of people would still want to do TOC for the trinks and other drops and our guild is mainly focused on ICC so i don't think anyone would miss their raiding if we could choose a anything besides tues and Sunday. and I'm sure most every guildie wouldn't mind making 2.2k for an hour of work.

idk it may be but i would be happy with this making decent cash and ensuring the guild gets a lil cash each week, i think cata is roughly 4 or 5 months away so if we went with this model and somehow managed a 25k every time for 10man the guild alone would make 20k and the individuals if we had a solid team would make 45kea before cata hits.

idk if people would be willing to donate more than 10% of their share to help the guild, officers and raiders would have to come to some agreement on the percent so the raiders dont feel like they're only doing it for the guild, but the guild still gets something
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:02 am

Bump - for updates.

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:34 pm

Just so everyone is crystal clear here, the main goal is to raise gold for the guild bank. The goal with that gold is to make sure that flasks, gems, enchants, repairs, etc for raiders are on the guild. That's one of the main benefits to this thing, eh?

Now it might just have been the holiday weekend, but no one approached me to purchase any EP.

I just want to toss out there that this service is available and I am very willing to take barter of things that we need OR things we can sell reliably for the EP contribution. So if you want to give in Frost Lotuses or Arctic Furs instead of gold for purchasing EP, we can strike you a deal to get you to the 242 gold equivalent (thanks for that odd math there, bhorg =p).

OR

If you want to give some things that the bank can sell very quickly to turn into cash (illusion dust, cobalt ore, old world ores, etc.) we can very gladly work something out for this.


Also:

There are some BoE epics from ToC and ICC in the guild bank. I let this crap sit two weeks before I hit the market with it. Good stuff, lvl 245+. Take a look and we can cut you a 50-75% (once again, thanks for the odd math, bhorg =p) price on it. Hook up your alts!
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:33 am

Any one fancy doing even more odd maths and work out the net gain of buying EP each week, not spending any and also suffering the decay. I'd love to build up my EP but i don't often gett the chance to spend it so i wouldn't want it to go to waste...
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:31 am

I believe all EP decays at 22% per week.

After one week (assuming no raiding) 6 EP minues decay = 4.68

After two weeks (no raiding) 6 EP (+4.68) = 8.33

After 3 weeks (no raiding) 6 EP (+8.33) = 11.18

After 4 weeks of buying EP, and not raiding = 13.40

That what you were looking for Bash?

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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:15 am

Yup that's the stuff, i didn't know the rate of decay to see if it was worthwhile but i think i'll give it a go. It'll just be a slightly more expensive round-about way of gaining EP but does turn out to be better for the guild coffers!

Cash and cupcakes in the mail ok by you Em?
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PostSubject: Re: Guild Bank Protocol - Version 1.0 - Alpha   Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:02 am

Cupcakes are ok by mail, but I would prefer if cash was contributed directly to the guild bank and then followed up with a mail to me saying "Gimme mah EP SUCKAH" or something to that effect for transparency.


It makes it so that the other individuals that have access to granting EP can make sure that we aren't selling more than the cap to one person per week.


Also, Bhorg, next time you are on, hit me up with a chat. I've got a specific modification that I'd like to discuss with you on the EP terms before I open the can of worms for discussion here.
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